Androgyny hypotheticals.

[aquilegia]

Hypothetically speaking, if I were to convert meshes for feminine/genderqueer (and, as sneebsy pointed out, narrower-of-build) teen-elder men, what kind would you like to see? For that matter, what kinds of styles would you like to see for trans women (I'm picking up that banner because Twisted FATE seems to have vanished)? Hypothetically. >_>


This post inspired by me opening the androgynous meshes I thought my last install of Milkshape had ruined and finding that lo and behold, they still work. NOT having to redo them all has done wonders for my enthusiasm for that project.

By the way, the latest Sims 2 mesh import/export plugins for Milkshape may not ask you about importing additional bone definitions, but they also seem to randomly ruin meshes on import or export! I NEVER had that problem before I updated them and no longer had it happen after I reinstalled Milkshape - and I could export meshes that had turned into exploded messes on me with the ostensibly newer plugins. Stick with the import/export plugins that come with the Milkshape install, trust me.

Comments

[harpers_child]

hypothetically speaking for boys? skirts. long, knee length, and a few shorter ones for the younger boys. jeans that have a little curve to them. pride t-shirts. button-down shirts with a little bit of ruffle on the front. simple sheath dresses. girl style tank tops with the tiny straps.

for girls i want suits. vests over dress shirts. bowties and regular ties. frilly dresses for androgynous girls.

my genderqueer sims tend to look androgynous but that may be a lack of decent looking clothes.

also have you seen http://genderfork.com/?

[aquilegia]

Skirts, definite yes. Any particular styles you have in mind? I know what kind of things I'm likely to make, but sometimes that veers wildly from what other people will actually use -- and a lot of times I don't think of totally obvious useful things.

Curvy jeans also very yes. The way I'm building the meshes is that they have the same bottom as the male default mesh, so they connect up the same (just like how the fem androgyny meshes work) -- which means more variation for all.

Suits and waistcoats also very yes. Just because I can't find a suit that fits right in real life doesn't mean my sims have to be in the same predicament!

I'll make sure to do frilly as well as simple dresses. The male androgyny shape is very close to the fem shape -- biggest adjustment is the neck -- so that means it's a lot easier to make their wardrobes complete.

also have you seen http://genderfork.com/?

I had not! :D That place makes me so, so, so happy. Thank you for giving me the link! And for giving your input, it's really helpful.

[hat_plays_sims]

I'd be served very well by a tunic mesh. A short, belted dress-type tunic which could work as a snug dress or top-and-skirt or long layered top with leggings or as just a tunic for folk like me. Maybe with something like Amaryll's flats or some other simple, non-stompy shoe. If I were willing to ask for something that was just straight-up Medieval, I'd ask for this tunic mesh, for example, has everything going for it but a pregmorph-- all ages, alpha-editable tunic and pouches and I think boots, too. I'm not sure it would make a very good modern outfit, though. (Also, ninjas, OFB or Bon Voyage or both. Teens too. Androgynous ninjas would sound fun even if the ninja outfit weren't my default Churchy outfit. Shoot, if I weren't already using the regular versions, I'd say that a default replacement androgynous BV superninja would be awesome.)

Long simple dresses for both genders and all post-pubescent ages-- something that could be an evening gown or a wedding gown or a nightgown or a rich robe for a wealthy but skinny scholar or a sensible dress for an active but flat-chested young lady.

I'd SAY the Apartment Life witch and wizard outfits, but I mostly just like the jacket on the wizards (no love for baggy pants and the boots are weird) and Kate's Fae Witch outfits are awfully cute alternatives to the witch dress (and someday I'll see how the mapping on the skirts compares). The Nightlife Vampire dress (Ghanima did a child conversion, so you might be able to steal a bit from that?), the basegame motoracer outfit, the basegame AF nightshirt mesh... Oph3lia's edit of Aligeth's Robin Hood mesh? Wait, that's me going all tunic-tastic again. Versatile, versatile... Okay, I'd never use them, but suits for both genders would be awesome, and I know someone I'd steer toward the suits. ... The Castaway Stories meshes would be fun but probably a pain in the ass to do. Hm. Jeans and T-shirts are an obvious choice (that none of my Sims ever wear)... Maybe some of the yukata and hakama meshes that are out there? And there are some drag meshes for menfolk (I think the thread is called Men Who Sparkle on GoS) that would be awesomely fantastically versatile... except they're on the regular male mesh with boobs added. Which is awesome, but they'd be even MORE awesome if there were boobless options, too.

... K8Parsmacourtier140208 needs prettier legs, and while I'll admit the poulaines might not be everybody's cup of tea as far as footwear goes, it really does have pretty sleeves on the top. (Heck knows I'd use it more if it looked like the leggings fit and the shoes weren't so wide.)

I have these visions of young girls dressing as young boys to join the army or navy in my Medieval kingdom. Also visions of young men who don't grow up quite as burly as other young men, or, OR, of young men who are actors playing young women.

[aquilegia]

I am going to mostly stick with modernish stuff, since that's what I play -- but I can definitely see some of the 80s-style oversized shirts I have in mind convincingly doing double duty as tunics. The wearing style will skew more toward modern, but I'll take care to make them as versatile as possible. They'll probably be tops instead of outfits, but that just means I'll have an excuse to make a bottom-only leggings mesh. :) One with flats, definitely -- for me it's boots/super chunky oxfords, flats, or converse with emphasis on the former two, because I loathe heels with a firey burning passion. LOATHE.

However, androgynous ninjas will be dead easy to do; the most annoying part will be doing the simPE work of building the packages! Slim the male mesh's torso and shoulders, adjust neck as necessary, and there we are.

Basics like t-shirts and and suits are a definite yes -- I'll do the basic untucked meshes, but I'll also be making more 3D meshes as I'm feeling pretty over the whole untucked/painted on thing for the most part (it's awesome with high-waisted things, but otherwise...) now that I can seperate meshes on my own.

I don't like the drag meshes much. They're fine, there's nothing wrong with drag, but it's a small subset of genderqueer/transdom in my experience. I'm skewing toward clothes that are representative of myself and people I know, you know? :) But I'm asking for suggestions because my personal style is, err, a little weird.

All this is not denying a possibility of more distinctly medieval/fairytaleish meshes, however. The fae witch outfits are dead cute - it's been long enough since I've played I forgot how much I like the witch outfits and now I wonder if I could make the jackets into seperates... I'll just have to play with it and see how mean the alpha layers play. XD

[hat_plays_sims]

And I make Medieval-ish stuff cos that's what I play, but you never know when there'll be a bit of crossover.

You know, I have a this yearning for leggings and tunic tops as separates for men. Any shape of men. Also for androgynous women. And flats or converse are easy to make look like period shoes.

I am highly in favor of meshed T-shirts on general principles, even if I don't really use T-shirts in my game. Not every T-shirt needs to be so tight that one's default-replacement nipples show through.

The drag meshes are by no means something I have my heart set on-- I just like the overall shape of the outfits, except for the boobs. And I am not one to talk about weird personal styles, I'm really not, but then I'm a bit of a schlub who enjoys costume design.

Somebody on InSim was going to turn the female witch jackets into tops, but never posted them-- made pretty good progress, I was cheesed that they weren't anywhere else on the site. The male tops would be awesome as separates (or as robes if they were extended like the fae witch dresses), too. Really, I LOVE the idea of dresses and tunics as separates with leggings as pants, or of dresses as bottoms to go over various tops, but all the focus is on AF. It's a brilliant idea for everybody! Share the love!

[aquilegia]

And I make Medieval-ish stuff cos that's what I play, but you never know when there'll be a bit of crossover.

Totally. :) It never hurts to ask -- I wouldn't have considered that the slouchy/oversized shirts could function as tunics if you hadn't brought it up.

You know, I have a this yearning for leggings and tunic tops as separates for men. Any shape of men. Also for androgynous women. And flats or converse are easy to make look like period shoes.

Yesss. Leggings are another thing that are easily multifunctional, so I'll definitely be making some of those.

The drag meshes -- I see what you mean. I can do better, though. *g* (All this, and modest, too!) So I will -- for the variety of bodyshapes.

but all the focus is on AF

I know, right? :/ It's frustrating, but (for me) it's also hard to design things like that for guys if you don't veer into the feminine, it seems, because for modern people the average guy has nowhere near the societally-acceptable choice in styles the average gal does (And as I type that I'm going, self, since when did you care about societally-acceptable style choices, you look like a freaking anime character! -- but there you are XD).

I'm just going to have to be more creative, obviously.

[hat_plays_sims]

Right, and that braided-buns hairstyle FR made that's so perfectly Medieval also looks great on aliens, especially in neons. Things can serve many purposes! It's always worth asking or mentioning or looking at how it's made, right?

Yeah, there's not much scope at all for societally-acceptable modern menswear as there is for womenswear, for some insane reason. There used to be, but lately it seems like the fashionable man wears dark colors in basic shapes, while fashionable women are expected to wear... well, I'll put it this way. I collect fashion dolls, mostly from a particular company that closely follows real-people fashion trends. It's been about two years since I've bought a NEW outfit. So heck yeah. Screw society and use your imagination. (Gotta have a good dark suit, though. Any guy who ever expects to go to a job interview or be invited to a wedding or attend a funeral or go to court for whatever reason needs a good dark suit-- black, gray, blue, or brown, pinstriped if you please, but dark. Also I have a weird weakness for creamy white suits with black shirts, despite the whole Colombian drug lord look.)

*considers menswear that could be done in the Dresses As Tops or Dresses As Bottoms style* Well. Aside from Medieval hose or contemporary leggings (or tights) or regular old bare legs with sundry shoes... The overalls from... um, Seasons or Kitchen and Bath could be done as bottoms to fit over a variety of shirts (and might clip but you can't avoid ALL clipping ALL the time). Skinny jeans might work with longer tops. Longer tops could include jackets-- thigh length or longer, my brain goes to 'bulky green Army surplus' and 'delicious long leather trench,' and I do believe there's a basegame trench coat mesh that could be cannibalized. Apartment Life Wizard coat-- or dress, or the coat part from the dress-- with your choice of pants underneath (cos c'mon that'd look so fun with converse). ... Lab coats or shop aprons, except that'd kind of make the shop aprons mildly useless as actual work uniforms.

OH GOD, the basegame kilt as a top, thus finally allowing me to use it without the goddamned chicken legs. That would rock my socks. ROCK THEM.

[sneebsey]

From what I've seen of your male androgyny mesh, it is basically my bodyshape, hence I shall say this: Waistcoats. And Geeky T-Shirts. Because that is what ~real~ gays wear now?

For Androgynous girls, I have noticed a distinct lack of decent undies: possibly a t-shirt with brief-type things?

[aquilegia]

Basic seperates are definitely going to happen, and happen first because EVERYONE can use basic seperates. T-shirts for everyone! Also waistcoats for sure, because I love the things and am happy to share.

Decent undies: excellent point. There's definitely a range there that isn't getting filled.

[sneebsey]

OUTERWEAR!

I'll crawl back into my little hole now.

[aquilegia]

Heheh. X) Outerwear is a given.